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Nem



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 2141
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:36 am    Post subject: Jungle Fun Reply with quote

Some mild violence.

Wh40k

-------

The Space Marine crashed through the undergrowth, muscles afire with adrenaline and the chemical cocktails of battle rage pushing him on through the edge of exhaustion. A wrecking ball made of metal and immortal flesh tearing through the tissue paper world of mortals. He was racing the bullets of his foes, and losing. Turning he fired into the undergrowth as parts of his body were torn away, too large in his armour to take cover. A shot took his bolter from his fist in a shower of metal; another slammed him to his knees.

“No.” He roared struggling to his feet again. Then his muscles went slack as half the contents of his chest were emptied out into the back of his armour, the destructive wasp whining as it ricocheted around the inside of the carapace.

Some time passed beneath the twin suns of the jungle moon. Animals came and went drawn by the smell of blood; insects started their feast.

The jungle flowed around the hunter as he stepped from his cover to look down at the Space Marine. His face was drawn in shades of greys and greens that had been worked down into the valleys of his skin. His smile was like rags pulled over a poor artist’s impression of a human skull. The Space Marine’s eyes glided over him, having trouble finding where the man stopped and the trees began.

“How?”

The hunter cupped his hands and lit a cigarette. “You’re painted bright blue. I’m not.”

“Oh.”

“Yes.”

There wasn’t much else to say, somehow several thousands years of martial history had managed to overlook one simple fact: You were easier to kill if people knew where you were.

The hunter’s gun barked in the jungle.

-------

I was overcome by a fit of momentary anti-whimsy.
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thespaceinvader



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 650
Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is, somewhere (possibly 4chan, I can't track it down right now) a rather amusing article about the Sensible Marines, a chapter who deny the usual strictures of war, and go in for things like camouflage, that sort of thing.
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spellingmistax



Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 615
Location: Asa took this ^ I stole it ^_^

PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It took me a while to track this down. I think you will enjoy it. It is along the same lines as above.Warning contains swearing and some violence.

http://stargrunt.netfirms.com/groundzero.html

I also assume you guys have heard of the angry marines?
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"He gave you a life and you should cherish that treasure." - Benny

while Udina asked the usual inane civilian things that came about while under attack: "What's happening? Who is shooting at us? I'm squishy and not wearing armor and I'm a liability, get me to safety, etc.
dubbed Anthrax by Asa
Spellingmistax = mistax = ax = anthrax
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Nem



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 2141
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, never heard of them. But thanks for the link! ^_^

Space Marines are a rather strange concept really. On the one hand as war evolves field battles become more and more impractical - anyone who stands up in a field is just going to be smashed flat from orbit, or at least BVR. Satellites can count the number of eggs on a table, it's not like they're going to have any trouble picking out a man in a field or a tank. And then we have radar that can pick out infantry and track mortar rounds in flight, man portable IR scanners. And these aren't things that are going to be developed, we've already got them. Some of them are horrendously expensive thanks to some stupid copyright laws but we've got them.

The distribution of soldiers along a battlefront has been changed by the destructiveness of the weapons on the other side and the accuracy with which they can be deployed, (among other things like logistical concerns.)

There are countermeasures of course, one of the reasons you're not allowed to starch the new uniforms the US has is they've been given a special coating to reduce IR signatures. But even if you deploy your infantry in small groups, say five Space Marines at a time, and weigh them down with relevant stealth gear to cover IR and radar signatures - it's not like a computer can't run pattern recognition programs and pick the infantry out; even if just by virtue of their shadows.

Realistically the kinds of threats that a Space Marine would be duelling with are: orbital weapons, artillery, cruise missiles, air support; that line of thing.

So you need to stick your squishy humans in a confusing environment: jungles, forests, urban environments, etc. Where satellites and radar don't get that kind of look down shoot down ability. The problem Space Marines would have is they're an extremely bad design for that kind of thing. A couple of tons of Marine in the forest is going to leave footprints my sister could follow; he's going to be much too big to take cover too. A Space Marine in an urban environment, apart from the obvious ease with which he can be picked out from civilians is going to go through the floor - even assuming he can force entry to a building in the first place; he might be too big to enter the building. And he's going to make a lot of mess and noise while he's about it.

The role of infantry is going to have to become increasingly specialised.

Even keeping them in uniform after a certain point I find very unlikely - too easy to pick out, too easy to kill. That's the problem with Iraq: people go out in uniform and they're essentially sitting around waiting for the enemy to take a shot at them; and this is a low tech enemy. The situation improves somewhat when you're going out to hit a target but it's still not ideal.

Camo is about blending in with your environment - with the heavy hitters lurking over the horizon and out of reach that's much more important than some fancy gear. Rather than the Space Marine extreme I think protection is, for most people, going to be sacrificed for concealment.

Maybe you'd have a few snatch and grab teams for going in and getting targets you needed to be sure of: Enemy command staff, securing intelligence, etc. Go in get the target and then get out. And it's this role that Space Marines might fit quite well into, provided they retained the manoeuvrability of their lesser armoured brethren. But they're massive armoured monsters; walking tanks if you will, they don't have that kind of utility anymore.

It's a strange conundrum. The qualities that would make them quite good at the job if they could be employed stop them from employing those qualities. I usually use the solution of amping up their powers up a bit so they can just smash through walls to make an entry; anti-grav units to an extent take care of the floor issue - but they're still restrained by the problem that the minute they step outside they're going to get clobbered, and if they run up against a building that someone's decided to reinforce so they can't just shoulder through the walls they have to use explosives, with all the relevant limitations.
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We stroll along the roof of hell
Gazing at flowers.
- Issa
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thespaceinvader



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 650
Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The interesting point with the marines is that they are basically invincible in the fluff. The tabletop game marines have to be balanced with the other factions, so they CANNOT be as naughty donkey as they are in the books. It's only minor exaggeration to say that a single squad of marines would be enough to pacify a planet of normals.

Read the Iron Snakes book, for instance.

You're talking about genetically modified super-soldiers who cannot feel fear, spit acid (one of the little enhancements that's not often mentioned), can fight in space and underwater, who weild a basic sidearm that is basically a fully automatic RPG launcher, and wear armour that can shrug off even direct hits from the basic infantry weapons of the setting (lasguns and autoguns). Their intelligence is enhanced to superhuman proportions, they can go for months without sleep and weeks without food, they are basically immune to poisons.

These guys don't need tactics Wink
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spellingmistax



Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 615
Location: Asa took this ^ I stole it ^_^

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thespaceinvader
Quote:
basically a fully automatic RPG launcher


You forgot the amour piercing bit. Wink

Such heavy amour on a solder does have uses, albeit only in very specific circumstances. In any event, Space marine type amour cannot fully protect you from battlefield circumstances one example being kinetic energy; even if the amour could stop any current ordnance the force of the impact of the larger rounds would probably turn our hero to paste. If a round from a battleships main cannon hits a Space marine, the amour might survive but the marine will not.

I know that Space marines and there ilk are silly, but I still play 40k, why? Because chain swords are cool. The rule of cool covers a multitude of silliness Very Happy
_________________
"He gave you a life and you should cherish that treasure." - Benny

while Udina asked the usual inane civilian things that came about while under attack: "What's happening? Who is shooting at us? I'm squishy and not wearing armor and I'm a liability, get me to safety, etc.
dubbed Anthrax by Asa
Spellingmistax = mistax = ax = anthrax
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