FAQ Memberlist Usergroups Register Log in
Profile Log in to check your private messages Search

Hail to the chief
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> General Discussion
Author Message
thespaceinvader



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 650
Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:17 pm    Post subject: Hail to the chief Reply with quote

Who's been watching the inauguration ceremony?

I've been intrigued. I can't say I cared for Aretha Franklin's interpretation of the national anthem, and I was amused to see the judge chappy muff his lines up. But I have to say that I am very hopeful about the next few years. Obama's saying things that ring true to me, particularly about science and technology.

We shall see.

Anyone else have any comments?
_________________
Keeper of Tristram's rings, and Felucca's very expressive ears.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tinu.



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 3690
Location: The land of dreams

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was interesting, I'll say that. I didn't much care for Aretha Franklin's song either. I'm still a bit skeptical. I believe in men proving themselves through their actions, not their words - so I'll wait and see what President Obama decides to do. I hope he is a good President, but I'm going to wait and see. But, here's to the future!

I really didn't much care for that poem either. She read it strangely and in my opinion it wasn't very good.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tinalles
Site Admin


Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 1630
Location: Grand Forks

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a note, Arethra Franklin sang "My Country 'Tis of Thee." The national anthem is "The Star-Spangled Banner."

I'd actually be happier with "America the Beautiful" as national anthem. It's a nicer song. The tune of "The Star-Spangled Banner" was originally an eighteenth century drinking song entitled "Hymn to Anacreon" (Anacreon being a god of drunkenness and dissolution). And of course the lyrics of the Star-Spangled Banner were a poem composed in the middle of a battle with the British in the War of 1812. It's rather militant. Fits nicely with the isolationist siege mentality espoused by many American paranoids.
_________________
Keeper of The Remnant Minuon (cognomen Lucy, the Eaten One) and the Emissary Caeli
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tinu.



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 3690
Location: The land of dreams

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, but "America the Beautiful" wasn't composed until much later, wasn't it?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Asa



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 3538
Location: Grammar Police HQ. Watch your language, I'm armed with the NYTimes Style Book AND Strunk and White!

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I happen to like all three songs, but I still like "Star Spangled Banner" best. But then, I'm a traditionalist, so...

Yes, Aretha murdered "Tis of Thee". *shudder* Blah. And there were several things that I was miffed about during the whole thing.


Question, for anyone who cares to give a succinct answer: Why was is, when introducing President Bush, the announcer said "George Walker Bush", but when announcing President Obama, he said "Barak H Obama"?

If you're going to do it one way for one of them, do it one way for both of them. 'Hussein', though it has negative connotations, is just a name. If you don't want to say it, fine. But be consistent!


As to the speech: It was a bunch of empty, pleasing phrases that could be interpreted in a million ways. I know, because I tend to disagree with everything Obama's said so far, and I agreed with some of his statements during the speech. Now, since I know that he won't be doing things the way I think they should be done, and since I know he wasn't referring to the way I think things should be done, therefore I know I interpreted the speech differently than he did. To clarify, he didn't say anything of significance at all. So I agree with Nu, I'm going to wait for him to do something before I give him my stamp of approval.
_________________
Self-styled Forum Grandmother, because I hand out nicknames and hugs whether you want them or not. ^_^

Keeper of the Library and the Gateway to Haven

Nem: "It's the sort of face you just know is getting ready to poke you with something sharp."
BS: "...then insist you eat a brownie."
__________________
If we shadows have offended,
Think but this and all is mended...
Give me your hands if we be friends,
And Robin shall restore amends.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tenshi



Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Posts: 2594
Location: Star Stuff

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to get into a political debate here, but I'm going to support our president regardless of who they happen to be. That's just how I was raised to be, to support our representative. Even if I don't agree with the energy, health care, economic, foreign interest, or tax policies that Obama's campaign set as their goals (on their site, not in his speeches), I'll support our president and do my best to have his back.

For what it's worth though, I realized today the reason I didn't vote for Obama. I've become so cynical and jaded that I have no hope, no faith, that a man can honestly be as good as Obama claims to be. I simply... don't have enough hope to invest, because I'm too afraid that the reality will be much like I fear. Another liar in the white house, like all those before him.

It also bothers me a great deal when people cheer that we have a black president, yet hate those who don't cheer with them. It's horribly ironic, I think, that they're cheering for the election of a man that transcends boundaries of bigotry, ignorance, and hatred. In doing so, they're espousing those same three philosophies in the "if you don't support him, you're a racist" mentality.

Sigh. I would say that America disgusts me sometimes, but I think it might just be humanity in general. _
_________________
. Dubbed "Usagi" by AsA .
Keeper of the Siderean Swords

"If by chance some day you're not feeling well, and you should remember some silly thing I've said or done, and it brings back a smile to your face or a chuckle to your heart, then my purpose as your clown has been fulfilled."
Red Skelton
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Tinalles
Site Admin


Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 1630
Location: Grand Forks

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asa wrote:
Question, for anyone who cares to give a succinct answer: Why was is, when introducing President Bush, the announcer said "George Walker Bush", but when announcing President Obama, he said "Barak H Obama"?


Because there are two presidents named George Bush, and he needed to make it clear that he was introducing the younger of the two.

Meanwhile there is only one president named Barack Obama. Nor does it seem terribly likely that we'll ever have another one by that name. I bet "Barack" will become a lot more common in coming years, but there are still going to be precious few Obamas in the U.S.

I did note that Chief Justice Roberts used the full name "Barack Hussein Obama" when administering the oath.

Asa wrote:
As to the speech: It was a bunch of empty, pleasing phrases that could be interpreted in a million ways ... he didn't say anything of significance at all.


An inaugural address is a ceremonial occasion. Its purpose is to mark the peaceful transfer of power between an outgoing president and the new one. It's not a major policy speech.

In fact, I was kind of surprised at how much policy stuff he put in, particularly this bit:

President Obama wrote:
What the cynics fail to understand is that the ground has shifted beneath them - that the stale political arguments that have consumed us for so long no longer apply. The question we ask today is not whether our government is too big or too small, but whether it works - whether it helps families find jobs at a decent wage, care they can afford, a retirement that is dignified. Where the answer is yes, we intend to move forward. Where the answer is no, programs will end. And those of us who manage the public's dollars will be held to account - to spend wisely, reform bad habits, and do our business in the light of day - because only then can we restore the vital trust between a people and their government.


That's an announcement that he's going to cut programs. It's also a pretty bald pot-shot at free market conservatives. I'm startled to see anything so concrete (and combative) in an inaugural address.

The rest of it was more epideictic, which is more what I'd expect in a ceremonial speech.
_________________
Keeper of The Remnant Minuon (cognomen Lucy, the Eaten One) and the Emissary Caeli
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nem



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 2141
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obama always turns out a good phrase. If he kills the terrorism acts I'll be happy.
_________________
Never forget,
We stroll along the roof of hell
Gazing at flowers.
- Issa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Tinu.



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 3690
Location: The land of dreams

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tenshi wrote:
I'll support our president and do my best to have his back.


I'll clarify that I will always support and respect him, as he's the leader of my country, but I'm making up my mind about whether or not I like him, and whether or not he deserves all the praise he's giving.
I'm not a democrat, so I agree with very few of his policies, and I hate that when I say I didn't vote for him people automatically scream "RACIST!"
It's great we have a black president - but that alone is not a good reason to vote for him. I've also heard that people voted for him because they thought he was hot. Sometimes, the people in this country make me very, very sad. u_u
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sailorscully



Joined: 21 Jan 2009
Posts: 36
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm not a democrat, so I agree with very few of his policies, and I hate that when I say I didn't vote for him people automatically scream "RACIST!"


It really grinds my gears (and I'm a Democrat, so...) that people see Obama as a Black President instead of a President who happens to be black. Yeah, it's a huge deal and all that he's the first african american president, but you're disagreeing with his ideas, not his skin color. c_c pshaw.

Anyways....I'm really excited to see what he'll do! I thought some of the shots of the National Mall from above were INCREDIBLE. So many people!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Tenshi



Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Posts: 2594
Location: Star Stuff

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@sailorscully: First, welcome to the forums! Very Happy Second, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what Tinu is saying as well. In fact, I think what most of us are thinking... "Black President", "President who is black", what does any of it have to do with anything?

I recall I saw some campaign art (done from another country, oddly) which photoshopped McCain to look black and Obama to look white. The tagline was "Let the issues be the issues". I don't know if I could agree more, and that I've been called racist several times now simply for not voting for a black man does not amuse me.

The reality is that many of those same people could not answer even one simple question about Obama's policies. What he plans to do with the country, right? "Change" is not a specific answer. Every president gives rise to change, there has never been (to my knowledge) pure stagnation under a president's term. Very few of the knee-jerk "non-Obama votes are racist votes" people could tell me what Obama's plans for taxation were, for instance. Many refused to believe me when I told them his plans are to raise business tax by 50%. When asked to cite my sources, as if I were trying to sully his good name, it pleased me greatly to direct to his campaign site.

But, I digress. Obama is an excellent orator, and I think that he stands a chance at being one of the greatest diplomats to hold the presidency. I'm as excited as anybody to see what he does, but as I've said before I hold all of his words with a hefty grain of salt. The political arena is full of sharks looking out for their own self-interest, through deals or promises. Very few of them actually care more than for appearances about the "common people". IF Obama makes good on his promises to change that history, I will regard him forever as one of the greatest policymakers in my lifetime.

In truth, I probably won't risk holding my breath. I guess I'm just a bit more cynical and jaded than most people, but then most people haven't gone through as much trauma as I have either. Once you lose the ability to trust other human beings, you start to have more faith in what you know. "Better the devil you know" type of thing. Obama, I don't know. I don't trust him. I don't have faith in him. McCain, at least is the devil I know. I know what he and his platform will attempt to do, and how they will go about doing it. It's a world I've learned to operate within, and one I know I can survive in.

So, I guess my final thoughts on it are thus: I hope and pray that Obama does and is everything he says he is. That I can't seem to draw heavy correlations between what his campaign website said were his plans, and what his speeches and rallies seemed to say concerns me a great deal. So, we'll see. He's my president now. For better or worse, I will do my best to support him in that role.
_________________
. Dubbed "Usagi" by AsA .
Keeper of the Siderean Swords

"If by chance some day you're not feeling well, and you should remember some silly thing I've said or done, and it brings back a smile to your face or a chuckle to your heart, then my purpose as your clown has been fulfilled."
Red Skelton
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Squeeself



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nem wrote:
Obama always turns out a good phrase. If he kills the terrorism acts I'll be happy.


Seems like a lot of expectation on one man...considering terrorism has been around since the dawn of time. We only put that label on it fairly recently to be more politically correct. This war on terrorism has always been so ambiguous. Especially when domestic terrorism is a big a danger as foreign (and harder to secure against). Not to say that Obama couldn't or shouldn't strive for security across the world from violence but...To completely stop it? That takes way more than one man. Just pointing out you'll never be happy if that's the case.

On topic...As an Obama supporter from the beginning, Squee has great expectations for Obama. Hopefully realistic expectations, but in the end Squee just has to hope. Too many have already fallen to cynicism before there's even a chance for him to DO anything...Squee'll be the first to criticize when the time comes though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sunshine



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 592
Location: Up in the Clouds

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Squee - I think Nem was referring to the government acts that were passed regarding terrorism, rather than the idea that Obama could "kill terrorism"


In other news: hours after his inauguration, President Obama ordered a cessation of the war crimes tribunals in Guantanamo Bay. The 120 day grace period will allow the new administration time to review the tribunal process overall as well as the specific pending cases and "decide what forum best suits any future prosecution." The TIMES Online UK article

For those who don't know, a military tribunal is like a trial where the military has complete jurisdiction over the proceedings. They are the prosecution, judge and jury, and their word is final.

I for one consider this a very strong first step in the right direction for Obama, and am pleased to see he is already taking actions consistent with his campaign promises.
_________________
I do commissions!
Interested? Let me know! :D

My deviantART page

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Nem



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 2141
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the terrorism acts. ^_^

As far as getting rid of terrorism itself goes the media pretty much scuppers that idea from the get go. I don’t like the term terrorism myself, all warfare is terrorism, so I’ll use insurgency from here on in. Anyhoo, any sane counter insurgency policy is what can at best be called, 'distasteful.' Unfortunately we've got a system whereby the government answers to a bunch of pacifists who twitch every time they see something paraded before the cameras with some suitable music as backing. It's like this General Nkunda thing: Whenever anyone's actually strong enough to stand up for their people the public rip them to shreds.

But it doesn't work the other way, when your machete wielding enemy goes and hides behind a definition like refugee and still raids across the border killing your women and children suddenly they’re subject to the pity of the international community in a way that you weren’t and aren’t. Odd that, one would almost think that this morality thing is, for most people, subject to how cute/pitiable the thing before them looks.

And terrorists have the best one of all, they get to hide behind civilians, and suddenly all those people they were letting die become unacceptable to take out in order to get to them. See when you make it an active thing rather than negligence people become aware of their responsibility, and they don’t like that.

There’s a vast difference between the power and tactics a Western military has and those it is allowed to use. International terrorism would come to a rather abrupt end if we just sat down said, ‘We’re going to have to do some nasty things for a short while to enforce a longer peace. Small children should look away at this point.’ and got to work. Not with insane rubbish like the patriot act but actual workable counter insurgency policy. Unfortunately the petty sensibilities of people who’s morality costs them nothing significant and demands no action on their part, is a coward’s morality, and it’s ruining this world for that sort of thing.

So the real monsters of the world go around largely unopposed, because they can play the system and categorise themselves clearly as the victim for the media to pick up on, while all the real heroes get messed up by the media because they haven’t had the luxury of spending years learning how to cry for the cameras. If it wasn’t for Western media we’d have peace in central Africa right now, mark my words. African peace on African terms, which is the way it has to be. And just maybe, if we stayed out of others business, this terrorism thing would go away all by itself. Terrorism is after all an overblown threat. It might kill a few people here and there but more people die in car accidents every year and we’re not spending three hundred million dollars a day on improving car safety. But even if it wouldn’t go away by itself, we’ve got the tools to fight it, kill teams, false flag operations, bribery, deprivation of utilities, and so on towards the nastier options all the way up to the NBC options for the most prolific problem areas – if only we were allowed to use them.

People are obsessed with fighting a clean war, they think if you send someone to get shot on the streets, even if you have to do it repeatedly, rather than stab them in the back at night once, that it’s somehow more righteous; it’s absurd - a moral aesthetic.

All of which, much as I like Obama (I mean if anything else if he messes up it’s going to be interesting to hear him make it sound good) makes me sad to say it’s something I heard shadows of in Obama’s speech: ‘our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.’ I was sitting there wincing at that part, they’re all fine qualities but what most people think those things are aren’t generally very conductive to security. On the plus side if he gets out of Iraq and Afghanistan the threat will largely diminish of its own accord; the only reason terrorism is costing so much is because someone decided it was a bright idea to send soldiers over where they could easily get shot at by terrorists.

While the current system of morality and economic wealth endures I fear instituting sane counter insurgency policy in America would be political suicide. If Obama actually sets up a decent counter insurgency policy I may just have to sacrifice some lolcats to him. Still it’s amazing how when the hard times really hit all that morality stuff goes out the window though, maybe a couple of generations down the line there will be a public that would support that sort of thing. When the hard times hit at home, assuming they do, I think the niceties of how to deal with international terrorism are going to be the least of anyone’s problems.
_________________
Never forget,
We stroll along the roof of hell
Gazing at flowers.
- Issa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Tinalles
Site Admin


Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 1630
Location: Grand Forks

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeesh, Nem. You had me at "Yeah, the terrorism acts. ^_^" and you lost me when I realized how long the rest of the post was.
_________________
Keeper of The Remnant Minuon (cognomen Lucy, the Eaten One) and the Emissary Caeli
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Elveron phpBB theme/template by Ulf Frisk and Michael Schaeffer
Copyright Ulf Frisk, Michael Schaeffer 2004


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group