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The Truth Behind Willow: Discussion
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Sasha Lupine



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, because remember, she had to go learn how to create an Eve from the elder planets. (From the Genesis chapter, I think)
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Tyris



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

However, someone had to be the first to do it. Who did they ask? Unless the alphas got the knowledge from the Sidera (and even then, maybe), it must be possible, if difficult, to create an Eve without asking them.



Anyway, our own question: given that Willow isn't a soulstone bearer who will later get sent back to the place and time she left, does this mean she can age and die as normal? Or is the time-stoppage a function of Earthsong's surface, rather than of being a bearer?
Hey, maybe that's Willow's power! Time-warping.
If either of you start to sing I will destroy you.

Eh, it seems a little overpowered. Lady wouldn't unbalance the story like that.
Right, just like she didn't give a character the power to use anyone else's powers.
Uh...
Let's give her credit. If anyone can do it believably, it's teh Lady.
True enough. After all, she made the rest of the story believable, and it's... well... look at it. Does any of that look real? Nope, but she makes us believe in it.
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Sasha Lupine



Joined: 26 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Nanashi doesn't seem to have physically aged at all during her stay on Earthsong.
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inked.silver



Joined: 09 May 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ooooo Wonderful reveal, m'Lady! I can't say it was completely unexpected but it was awesome nonetheless

Quote:
I wonder if it's possible for Earthsong to have started creating her Eve, and then for the Eve to finish itself somehow?


ES had been trying to form her Eve at the council meeting thing (Genisis chapter)... I think she probably abandoned the task with the arrivals of the soulstone bearers but had done enough to initiate an eventual birth.... Or, maybe Bel came and finished creating the Eve? That would explain Willow being so close to the badlands when she was found, but personally, I don't think it works. >,<"'

... random question: Why didn't Tristram do anything? Sad Sad Sad

oh, and thank you Tyris for answering my question about Nanashi in the other thread Smile.
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sinesdex



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Talps Tamir has it right. Sorry people, but maintaining that Bel created Willow is ilogical given that he neither had her to begin with, did not recognize her when they met, and especially, that he appeared surprised at the revelation that she was in fact ES eve.
@Tyris Already theorized it Very Happy
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Wren



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sinesdex wrote:

So, how was Willow created? Well, to know that we have to actually know a bit more about how were eves actually created in the first place. I see only tree wiable explanations:
1) The sideran thaught the elder planets.
2) The elder planets found out by experimentation
3) The elder planets stumbled upon the process by accident

#1 I shall disregard for now, because, frankly, it gives me nothing to go upon.

I disagree. ES has siderian element on her surface, it is a possibility that this gave her the power to create an Eve. I would say that, since it is not mixing directly with her element (I believe), it might go into her subconscious, and ES appears to want an Eve. So if she had the knowledge subconsciously and wants to, it is possible that she did some thing(s) 'randomly' that ended up creating an Eve. We know her surface was aready prepped for it, it may well be that that is the hard part and the rest is just a little unintuitive.

inked.silver wrote:
... random question: Why didn't Tristram do anything? Sad Sad Sad

Tristram is terrified of Bel. And he might also be so freaked out at what's happening to Willow that he's not moving and/or looking.
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theBSDude



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really see anything Trissy could do. Not without getting pointlessly killed on the spot. He probably feels horible, though.
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Talps



Joined: 26 May 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sinesdex wrote:
@Talps Tamir has it right. Sorry people, but maintaining that Bel created Willow is ilogical given that he neither had her to begin with, did not recognize her when they met, and especially, that he appeared surprised at the revelation that she was in fact ES eve.
@Tyris Already theorized it Very Happy

In what way does he look surprised? He just looks... scheming. In Tamir's words...
Quote:
And Bel in the last panel is so saying "ehhhhhhhxcellent". x)

If he thought he had failed to complete the Eve and abandoned it, how would he know what it would look like?

This theory that Earthsong created the Eve doesn't work in my opinion. It's already been suggested that without being given the knowledge, the only way a planet could work out how to make an Eve would be trial and improvement; how could Earthsong do that without realising?
My belief was that the way to make Eves was taught to the Elder Planets by the Siderean: the creators teaching the created the secret of creation!

And if Earthsong started creating her years ago, why did she mention nothing of it in the meeting in Genesis? All she says is that she had prepared her surface. How did the Eve get completed if Earthsong needed knowledge to create her and never received it? Why would she tinker with her unborn Eve when it would risk her given task and her adopted children? Why would the Eve lie dormant for however long it's been? And why would she appear as a forming Soulstone?! The same question asked about the created-by-Bel theory!

Maybe Bel tried to create Earthsong's Eve (we know that he has the knowledge of how to do it) but didn't have enough of her Element, and so it didn't work, so he sent away the unfinished creation. Mayb she attracted more of Earthsong's element independantly as it escaped naturally until she had enough and 'formed' as a Soulstone would. Bel wouldn't know his work had finished; he wouldn't recognise her because A) he never saw her finished and B) He simply wasn't expecting to see her 'cus he thought she had never finished forming!!!

His reasons for creating her? Already we see she's given him a way to hurt Earthsong, to control her physically and emotionally, to tempt her out of hiding. And she also is a weapon against Earthsong; if Willow has babiez, there comes the risk that Earthsong could start forming soulstones, meaning she is no longer suitable for her task of looking after the other soulstone children.
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Asa



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lady, you must have been tickled pink by all the wild theories, especially when the real answer was so darn simple. And when everyone talked themselves out of the real answer so quickly! No wonder you cackled.

I seem to remember something about the Planet Manifests controlling their planet and surface by willpower. It seems to me that if Earthsong yearned so desperately for an Eve, yet consciously knew she couldn't have one, she would bury the thought and try to forget about it. But in her subconscious she would still be turning the idea over, imagining what it would be like to have one, thinking the process through, wishing and wanting. For her to create an Eve unknowingly in a moment of weakness, especially if she was already expending a large amount of power, makes perfect sense. The apparent nonrecognition can be explained again by her conscious knowledge that she shouldn't create an Eve, and therefore wouldn't be looking for it to happen. People have a remarkable ability to not see what's right in front of their faces (See: forumers and the Eve theory), and I think the same could apply to innocent, naive Earthsong.
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Rechaana



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... I think the real question is what Willow can do. She doesn't have a soulstone power perse, but don't Eves choose how their elemental powers manifest? Each other character already had their power decided by their respective Eves, but Willow is in the unique position of choosing a power. So what will she choose? Will it be an epic battle power? My vote's on telekinesis.

Btw, how does an Eve's power compare to the power of someone with a soulstone?
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LadySunami



Joined: 29 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: The Truth Behind Willow: Discussion Reply with quote

Points to me! I knew it!
LadyYates wrote:
~Appearance: [/b]The ends of their hair (or “hair” in Earthsong’s case) curls exactly the same way. Willow’s eye colour is the same as Earthsong’s manifest stone (vol.II, 71). She looks like a lavender skinned, white haired human (vol.II, 77) - Nanashi is Earthsong’s closest child, and Earthsong even modeled her manifest form after Gaia’s (see print edition character gallery) – it makes sense then that her Eve should look relatively human.

I read through the beginning last weekend again for old times sake, and was suddenly struck right here. At first glance I thought Willow's eye in the side panel was Earthsongs! The color, the lashes, they are pretty much identical. As I read on the evidence tallied up, but I held my excitement in long enough to verify.
sinesdex wrote:
So, how was Willow created? Well, to know that we have to actually know a bit more about how were eves actually created in the first place. I see only tree viable explanations:
1) The sideran thaught the elder planets.
2) The elder planets found out by experimentation
3) The elder planets stumbled upon the process by accident

#2 is my personal favorite. It seams plausible to me, and I can even find an example in primates of Gaia, as a sort of a proof. It also means that there is no 'secret component' to making an eve. Every planet is fully capable of doing it with no outside assistance if it follows some kind of process. A process that I'm sure is convoluted and complicated to the extreme, so to ease it to their younger brothers and sisters, the elder planets took it upon themselves to instruct them. But, to follow a process, one does not actually have to be aware of it. It might take a mightily long time to complete (evident in the case of the Willow, if we accept this theory), and the results might not be what was actually intended, in the end, like it or not, you get the eve.

#3 mostly everything said for #2 is also applicable here

I'm feeling confident with myself so I throw my lot in with the second and third possibilities.

One elder planet accidentally made an Eve. S/he then told the other planets, and they began to experiment to see if they could replicate the results. Eventually they discovered a concrete process which they could teach the other planets allowing them to create their own Eves.

That, of course, would mean that any planet is more than capable of creating an Eve by accident, if no one bothers to explain the process to them... (It'd be kind of like an "unplanned" pregnancy. If you do what is necessary to have children, even if you haven't been educated on the mechanism, you still get the kids!)
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silverrowan



Joined: 29 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never bothered to re-register in the new forum till now (lurker).

ahem.
BOOYAH! I was right! Twisted Evil
(and I'm sure many other people too, but I refused to be dissuaded!)

Can't wait to see what'll happen now Smile
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LadySunami



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

silverrowan wrote:
Never bothered to re-register in the new forum till now (lurker).

Lurkers unite! Twisted Evil
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Eee



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

inked.silver wrote:
... random question: Why didn't Tristram do anything? Sad Sad Sad


Well, it's not as if there's much he CAN do. If he attacks Bel (or even just interrupts him, at this point) he'll get swatted. Which won't help Willow. If he were fast enough he might be able to reach her and pull enough energy out to render her unconscious, thereby ending the torture for now. But that's ony a temporary solution, Bel would be VERY unhappy with him, and he'd never get a second chance to do that again. He could cover his ears with his hands and run out of the room; but I think Tristram is too much of a man to do that. He got Willow into this, he's going to stay no matter how bad it gets until it's over and maybe pick up the pieces if he can. Frankly, if the Guard burst into the place and started beating everyone up, I think he'd be the second happiest person in the room at this point.

eee, who is turning today's revelations over in his mind before commenting on them. There's something here that doesn't quite add up...
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SaraNevyn



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get a suspicion from Bel's comment that maybe what he was trying to do was to induce EarthSong to create her Eve. He wants EarthSong's position, right? And wasn't part of the reason ES was given the power and position the fact she didn't have an Eve? So now that she does, is Bel the only one left who could have the position?

Oh, it's hard to think like an evil villain ...

SN
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